Information
Name of TapeRTLM/65
Date of Transmission24 November 1993
SourceU.S. State Department
Prosecution ExhibitP103/39
Date of Translation2 April 1997
Name of TranslatorLydie Mpambara
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0039

Side A:

0.3 minutes

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA, Journalist for R.T.L.M. [?]

…or are you sad because of people who died? That was five days ago and you, officials of political parties, you did not say anything about that. The piece of advice that I should give to Minister Gasana is this one: he should know that the people he is talking to listen to him, they listen to him and they analyze. So, is it really true to say that political parties do not have means? In any case, even if that were true, it is not for him to say it. He is talking of means… Even Nayinzira bought himself a car! I saw him driving his car while he is a member of PDC. So, when Gasana says that political parties lack means and when we remember what happened to him Sunday when more than three government vehicles were damaged when coming back from a meeting at his place in Gikomero … What does he mean when he says that political parties do not have means? The means to go to see brothers who were savagely killed … The means to go and see a tragedy that took place in a particular region … What kind of means is that? From where one should look for such means, what should happen? Somebody cannot even spend his 2000 or 3000 francs and hire a taxi or a motorcycle and go to see the tragedy faced by brothers? Because it is really frightening to hear that 40 people were slaughtered like cows. Even if it is not your region, shouldn’t you rush and see, even out of curiosity at least? It is not only journalists who are curious. Even leaders of parties should be curious. Shouldn’t you go and see and say, “This is a tragedy.” Nobody has gone there after it was said, five days ago. None of the officials of the parties went there. Listen to that tragedy. And when they say that they are looking for members, when they are trying to … you should be surprised! So, Gasana said that it was the M.R.N.D.’s behavior which backfires against them … Things like that … So Gasana, from all that you said, what does justify that 40 people should die, should be slaughtered, whether members of M.R.N.D. or of any other party? And to which party does a baby belong? There is no justification! You are talking of M.R.N.D.’s behavior. By the way, you are the Minister of Foreign Affairs, you know about the agreements. It was said that there should not be any soldiers in that region. The Rwandan Army respected the agreements. Why the R.P.F.’s Army … It has been said for a long time that they had been seen drinking beer … Was it a lie? Were they other people? Were there ghosts that were seen? So, as the Minister of Foreign Affairs, what did you say about that, saying, “I see it, I will inform the international community that the Inkotanyi refused to go back to their positions, that they are wandering about.” If we come back to … When talking, we should be aware that we are talking to other people, and to intelligent people. Because what will cause harm to the Rwandans, what will harm the politics of this country is that a person thinks that he is the only one who can play politics, he thinks that he is the only one who can speak, he thinks that he is the only one who holds the truth, that members of other political parties are not intelligent, that they are stupid, that they do not understand, that he should con them because he has the opportunity to talk, that he should say whatever he wants … Here, on R.T.L.M., on your…

3.7 minutes

…independent radio, we will not stand that. You will tell lies people, and we will tell them the truth. Like you Minister Gasana, when you say that there are not enough means, that there was no way that officials of the parties should have gone to that region. I would like to remind you that I saw even Nayinzira, who belongs to PDC, with a car. So, as the Minister of Foreign Affairs, saying that there are no means … This is not true because the day before yesterday, in Gikoro, many vehicles belonging to MINAFFET were damaged when coming back from a meeting. So, how can one be able to get more than three vehicles for a political meeting and not be able to get one at least … If he took the petrol from each vehicle and put it in one vehicle, cannot he get enough petrol to go to Ruhengeri, in Kidaho? And there is tarmac … At least, he would see the tragedy that happened at Kanyamibwa’s place, he would see the ten or so corpses of innocent people lying, who have done nothing … In any case, nobody can justify it. As for those insufficient means of Gasana, here is the M.D.R.’s communiqué; I am going to read it to you again:

“After having heard of the acts of Minister Gasana who took the government’s vehicles to an illicit meeting, which led to the serious damage of those vehicles, the party M.D.R.’s opinion is that those who brought those vehicles involved into those troubles should repair them. The government’s money which comes out of the citizens’ taxes should not be used to repair them. We also inform the citizens that those meetings of Gasana and his mates and what they say in those meetings should not be pinned on M.D.R. because they have been dismissed from M.D.R. It is in that context that we inform the population that what Faustin Twagiramungu recently declared about the salary of the leaders of cellules is his own decision. No organ of M.D.R. mandated him to make such declarations. So, that decision is not M.D.R.’s decision.

Made in Kigali, 23 November 1993

Frodouald Karamira, 2nd Vice President of the party M.D.R.
Dr. Donat Murego, Secretary General.”

So, Mr. Gasana, you understand that you have got means but you have only means to attend meetings, you do not have means to pay a visit to brothers who are suffering. This also is a tragedy.

Overall, it is true that one may need to become a minister; one may need to join a party and to improve his social position. Politicians want power. That is right but now, if you have accused people of being thieves … Accuse them knowing that yourself you are not a thief. If you accuse others of wasting the State’s property … Accuse them but be sure that you do not waste! That is the real courage. Regarding Gasana, let us come back to him because he is the topic of the moment. Here, we have papers printed by a computer of TELECOM through which pass all telephone calls and telegrams. So, Minister Gasana, who is in charge of the State’s property, the people’s property, who wants to get a high post in … We have discovered that … Apart from taking vehicles to a meeting and having them broken … We have discovered that when he was still working with the scientific department of M.R.N.D., when M.R.N.D. was still Mouvement Révolutionnaire but it (M.R.N.D.) was about to be renovated because what we have dates from August and September 1991. We see that Gasana, as far as the management of the

7.7 minutes

…State property is concerned, the government’s property, because then M.R.N.D. was a State in the State. We can see that as for the management of the state property, he has got 0/100. He has got 0/100 marks. Apart from those vehicles that were broken during a meeting and which he wants to be repaired by the administrator or rather by the ministry … At that time he worked with the scientific department of M.R.N.D. and he called his wife … From 1 August to 31 August, he called his wife who was in Monaco for 113,830 RWF. He was just calling his wife. It was not for official matters. Because you can see that everywhere it is written France, Monaco … France, Monaco … From top to bottom. Also from 1 September 1991 to 30 September 1991, he called again his wife for 243,330. That means that within two months, he made the State to lose … Let me do the sum quickly … 357,160 RWF. 300,000 RWF! Just calling your wife! And people are said to be managing the state property … If it were in another country where democracy has progressed and where they truly want people to manage public property … If such a report was made public and if you were found guilty of such mistakes … Such mistakes of calling your wife for 400,000 at the expense of the State … In any case, you should immediately withdraw from politics. Because it is obvious that it is waste … if you add that matter … It is obvious that it is a kind of habit, the habit of eating up the State … Listen, spending 53 minutes on the telephone, calling Europe! 53 minutes and 17 seconds! 53 minutes and 38 seconds! On telephone, a whole hour, calling Europe for non official matters! They should also check telephones in MINAFFET, they should check the situation. You people who are calling yourselves politicians, who want to get posts in the politic system … For myself, I am a journalist; I do not want those posts. Still, we will be discovering you and making public what you are doing. It is your fault. Nothing else. So, the man of the moment was Gasana but we will also talk about others in a moment. We will talk of Minister Agathe Uwilingiyimana, the Prime Minister of the transitional government which is now powerless because of spending much time in the impasse. Keep on listening to Radio Rwanda. [Exclamations & laughter] … The independent Radio R.T.L.M. We are so used to Radio Rwanda … But this is the independent radio R.T.L.M. broadcasting from Kigali. You can feel that the manners of Radio Rwanda and R.T.L.M. are different.

11.0 minutes

…it seems that in Burundi, another coup d’état is being prepared. That coup d’état should take place during the night of Saturday or the night of Sunday. In any case, it must happen before the funerary ceremonies of the late President Ndadaye. And those funerary ceremonies are scheduled for the 19th of November. The plan is as follows: Nicholas Mayugi, the former Prime Minister under Buyoya regime and the present President of the party UPRONA is the one who would be the President. President Buyoya would be appointed as the Speaker of the National Assembly. All that would be done to prevent the O.A.U.’s forces from coming, the international organizations from conducting investigations on the assassination of Ndadaye and other innocent people. If that coup d’état were to take place and succeed, from the 10th to the 12th a meeting would be held in Geneva, Switzerland during which Lieutenant Colonel Bikomagu who committed atrocities in Burundi would explain to the international community about the situation in Burundi. He would be assisted by Bududira, a close friend to Simbananiye. All this is being prepared by the Burundian Ambassador in Stockholm. As it has been said, that coup d’état of Burundi during which they killed Ndadaye was rooted here in Rwanda. Some people do not…

13.0 minutes

…believe it, but you should believe it. That Burundi coup d’état was rooted here in Rwanda. Whether R.P.F. denies it or accepts it, it is all the same. It is known that Kagame had a hand in the Bujumbura plan. It is in the same context that R.P.F. is now alleged to be making up other plans in relation to that other coup d’état of Burundi. For example, it goes on killing people there in Ruhengeri, it is a precedent for creating troubles among the population or among the parties. So, it will get the opportunity to attack. As it has always done, it would get a pretext and would take the town of Byumba, and then it would move its headquarters to Murindi. It has also a plan of blocking the region from Base level up to the communes of Nyarutovu, Gatonde, Ndusu up to Kinigi and that entire region will be a permanent R.P.F. zone. Then, Rwanda would be divided into two. It would then be a part in the middle … It will be encircled by Burundi of Bikomagu and that area called Tutsi land. They have talked about Tutsi land for long and people thought that it was a joke but it became obvious that they really want to get that zone and the North. So, that is the unique aim of all those acts that are being planned. Those who say that some people do not want the extended transitional government … That is not true, there are rather other people who do not want it, who have got other reasons. So, let us keep on being vigilant, About that matter of being vigilant [the literal translation would rather be “keeping the eyes open”], somebody called me and told me, “yesterday, some people were in a bar and were eating fish…,” and he heard a song that is often played on R.T.L.M. that says, “Rwandans, be vigilant, you sons of Sebahinzi” [the literal translation would be: Rwandans, keep your eyes open, you, sons of Sebahinzi] and then, somebody told them: that fish has its eyes open and yet, we are eating it up! [Laughter].

Listen to some music. You are still tuned in to the independent radio R.T.L.M. broadcasting from Kigali. Those were the pieces of news that I had for you.

15.9 minutes

A cabinet meeting was held and we waited for the radio to make public its conclusions but in vain. Then, yesterday it was Mrs. Uwilingiyimana Agathe who announced to us what they had discussed in the meeting. And we said, “God, what happened? Was Rucogoza sick or what?” So, people did not understand. But it is understandable that there are difficulties. Other people continue to talk about Minister Gasana and they say, “Minister Gasana said that the ministry’s vehicles were means that they could resort to. So, we will see the Minister of Defense resorting to … We will see him taking an armored vehicle or a helicopter to a wedding ceremony… And when he will be asked questions about that, he will say that he had resorted to them. Or maybe, we will see him taking them to a meeting and then, he will say that it is what he had resorted to, that it is what he had.” In any case, it is their fault if people disparage them. Again about Minister Gasana, people told me, “Kantano, you talked about his mismanagement of funds, but we who accompany him on mission, we noticed another failing about him. He takes the entertainment allowance which is a lot of money … In any case, there are people who are in charge of providing that allowance, the protocol people … But he takes that money from them, pockets it and he pays … And when there is some money left …That is all, the money is left.… Everything is over. He did this in Mauritius and also in New York.”

So, I think that is also a bad habit of loving money … He should cease that if he wants to continue to be active in politics.

17.9 minutes

Also, concerning other pieces of news that we have just got, it is that Muhabura Radio has just announced that they had a communiqué released by the parties M.D.R., P.S.D., PDC and P.L. They read that communiqué to us yesterday at about 18:30 during a press conference that Faustin Twagiramungu chaired. So, it is not understandable how they read that communiqué to us in the evening and how it has reached Muhabura Radio in the morning. It is not understandable, we rather think that before the parties read it, they had prepared it with the Inkotanyi Karenzi. We have just also been told that before Mrs. Uwilingiyimana Agathe made those declarations, the Inkotanyi went to see her in a Pajero bearing the plate number. I forgot to bring along the piece of paper on which I had written it … So, to see a Prime Minister who has a visit from that Inkotanyi who deals with U.N. matters and Inkotanyi matters … And who afterwards makes declarations that are in favor of Inkotanyi … That also is not explicit. However, what has been found out, what is well-known is that this present government which spent much time in an impasse is a powerless one. Because its members are trying to work with Inkotanyi if they were ever to join that government. Because they are trying to get posts in that government. So, they can never say anything that should oppose them to the Inkotanyi. That is the reason people are being killed and they can never talk of “Inkotanyi.” They are really afraid of that word so that they [Inkotanyi] will not hear them and get angry with them and scold them. That is why in the speech that Mrs. Uwilingiyimana Agathe delivered yesterday, people have always been telling her, “You are saying that soldiers decided that they will no longer negotiate because people died. Why did R.P.F. make a great deal of fuss when thirteen people were lost? They even ordered you to rush and look for them in Ndusu until you handed them over to them. Even radio and television stations attended that … So, why had they stopped the negotiations and instead of condemning them, you rather got afraid, you fussed about and you looked for those young men whom you handed over to the Inkotanyi ? Maybe if you do not agree with me … Furthermore, now that people have been killed and there is no doubt that it is R.P.F. who killed them … Now we are stopping the negotiations. I think that if agreements are signed, I think that they have to be respected by two signatory parties. So, you cannot say that.…

20.9 minutes

In Gatengerane sector, in early 1991, they killed citizens using knives. In Cyumba commune, in Gishambashayo in Rubaya sector, the Inkotanyi killed people, saying that they refused to show them where the Rwandan Army was. After having killed them with knives, they locked them in houses. The population thought that those people had fled, but after some days, they started to smell a bad smell around the house of so-and-so and then, they discovered that those people had died in their houses. So, the wickedness that they showed in Ruhengeri is not something recent, it is their usual behavior. Guerilla fighters always show that kind of • viciousness. So, what happened in Ruhengeri is not a new thing. In any case, such wickedness must be condemned, in any case, whatever you are fighting for. Whether you are fighting for power or for whatever … Such things must be seriously condemned. So, it is not by talking that one could finish all the words (literal translation of a Kinyarwanda proverb). We talked enough for today. Misfortunes happen.…

22.4 minutes

Obituary announcement:

The family of the late Ntahondi Moussa residing in Rugenge sector is sorry to inform friends and relatives that Ntahondi Moussa passed away last night. This is especially addressed to his old brother Ngezahayo Desire who is in Rwamagana, the parents of Mukansanga Elina who live in Nyabisindu, Gahondo sector, Libanje Philbert who lives in Masaka, Hategekimana. [Interruption]

End of Side A

Side B

0.3 minutes

… One suspects it … Tomorrow Thursday, in the evening or during the day, we are curious. We are really curious to hear what the U.N. Organization, the U.N. forces, Unamir led by General Dallaire here in Rwanda will make public through an announcement with respect to the investigations they carried out in Ruhengeri on the tragedy that occurred there. There, where more than 40 people were savagely murdered, slaughtered like goats or chicken. However, now there are rumors that the Inkotanyi started to get afraid. They started to get afraid because there is much evidence against them. For the party M.R.N.D., there is no doubt that this was committed by Inkotanyi, and if one judges for himself, he would conclude that nobody else can do that except them because nobody can kill at the same time people from four different communes and [inaudible] To do so, you have to have those people with you. You have to have those people with you. So, who does have them? Is it the Rwandan Army? It is the Inkotanyi. Still, let us recall that that zone is a demilitarized zone. It has shown that as for Rwanda, no Rwandan soldiers have been going to that area. However, the Inkotanyi have always been there, with the population, talking to the population, teaching them their ideas, organizing meetings. So, nobody else can kill such a lot of people except the Inkotanyi who have always been controlling those people. And the government has always been informed about that. The other reason why the U.N. will discover that it is the Inkotanyi … When investigating, you ask questions to the population. You ask questions to the population. But, from what I heard during the investigations, even a baby to whom Unamir soldiers put questions told them that it was the Inkotanyi and nobody else. Even a baby … So, what else will they write in their report apart from what the population told them? Even because of that, of the fact that the population said the truth, that they said that it was the Inkotanyi, because they have accused them … After that, they came back and committed atrocities and attacked anybody who had talked to the U.N. soldiers. They killed those they could kill and the others fled. It is what they are doing until now. So, now the fact that the Inkotanyi will be found guilty of the savage assassination of more than 40 people … Now, nobody has any doubt about that.… We are rather wondering which sanctions will be applied against them. Sanctions applied against them … Maybe they are saying, “We are in Mulindi, nobody will come here and catch us.” Still, people have started to request that if they were found guilty, and they are actually guilty … It is not just a matter of postponing the negotiations but Kanyarengwe and Kagame should be arrested and brought before the justice … After that, negotiations should resume. That is it that is what the people wish. Concerning that matter of Inkotanyi, let me read to you the atrocities that are still being committed. In reality, one should think that the Inkotanyi. Do not listen, that they do not have ears. So, to condemn them … I do not know if that is how…

4.4 minutes

…the guerilla fighters act … But they do not care about being condemned. So, here is the message … In any case, yesterday, they told you about that news, but let me read it to you again because it is authentic. There are signatures and … That news is authentic. The news is worded as follows:

After the atrocities committed by Inkotanyi in the communes of Nkumba, Kidaho and Cyeru during the night of 17 November 1993 to 18 November 1993, they continue to kill citizens and hide their dead bodies. So, people see much blood but no corpses. They do so for journalists not to see them and show them on television … Like the day before yesterday, during the night of the 21st to the 22nd, they killed the named Sebiharaharo, son of Senzoga, residing in Ruhimbi cellule, Butete sector after having taken from him the money given to him as his daughter’s dowry. They are doing both the killing and the stealing. They went in the house of the named Mpiranya, son of the late Kanyamibwa Charles. They wanted to kill him but they did not find him there. Then, because of their wickedness, they threw a grenade in the house. Other grenades were thrown to the place where the late Nzabonimpa Leonard alias Gasupu had installed his mill after that they had removed it and taken it away. Listen to that … There are six dead bodies of people who had spent the night at Edouard’s place, who has a shop in Butete, which have not yet been found. Listen to that … Among those corpses, one is of the named Ntaganda who worked with the late Nzabandora alias Ndamiye who has also recently been killed by those Inkotanyi. Many citizens continue to flee from Kidaho and Nkumba … When I went to Ruhengeri, I saw them myself in priests’ vehicles. We even met priests who told us, “we are fleeing, we are going to Nyakinama.” They said that they had been seeing places where people had been killed but they could not see their corpses. There are also many citizens from those communes who did not have anywhere to go and who sought refuge in ISKAPA. ISKAPA is an institute, a school that is in Nkumba … Now, there is a Unamir battalion. There is a Unamir battalion nearby … They can see all that by themselves… When the population says, “we are fleeing from this and that…” After all, they do not come saying that they are fleeing from the Interahamwe, or the JDR. They come saying, “we are fleeing from the Inkotanyi.” So Unamir …, partial as it may be.… In any case, tomorrow Unamir will sit for a test … We will really see if it is biased or if it has really come to keep peace in this country. You see, it (Unamir) is near where the atrocities are taking place.

Some days ago, an Inkotanyi of the rank of Sergeant, whose name is Albert, told the citizens with whom he was sharing a drink in a bar at Butete center that they can never leave a place where they have shed blood. Maybe it is a kind of sorcery … Still, like those citizens who attended the burial of those eleven dead bodies that I found at Kanyamibwa’s place, all of them knowing very well that that had been done by Inkotanyi … So, will they dare to join the party named R.P.F.? You should know that R.P.F. is not a party, it is an organization as they say … Will they dare? Is it how one should recruit members? Those Inkotanyi also continue to organize meetings in Kidaho commune. Like in Gitaraga sector, they held a meeting Saturday, 20 November and in Rugarama sector, they held a meeting Sunday on the 21st. During these meetings, the Inkotanyi try to make the population believe that it is M.R.N.D. that commits the atrocities that are taking place there. Poor M.R.N.D. Nowadays, when you talk to the people of those communes, you notice that they are hopeless, they say that they are like people without any protecting leader. The Inkotanyi started to write on every worker’s house what his job is. For instance, on some houses they write…

8.5 minutes

…”jeshi” which means “soldier.” Other writings are in English and their objective is to be able to localize exactly the houses of the people they want to kill. What is also unfortunate is that some citizens seem to rejoice at the fact that their fellows are being savagely murdered. Listen to that …, “Now, the Inkotanyi have started looting. For example, in Nkiliza and Kidaho cellules of Kidaho sector, Kidaho commune, some ten houses of citizens have been looted. So, the citizens who are fleeing again faced the problem of hunger while they were about to harvest. It is true, there, I found beans almost green … So, they were about to eat and see now what is happening … The international community should help them quickly … That is the current situation in Ruhengeri. Some people, when they hear about that think that it is just in order to stir up trouble, Let me tell you … They will hide the truth from you and R.T.L.M. will reveal it, even if it were to be in trouble because of that. That is our unique assignment. You are still tuned in to…

9.6 minutes

He took government’s vehicles and they went. When reaching Nyacyonga, they got an accident. Now, people are saying, “we will feel easy in our mind when Minister Gasana will have them repaired, there is no way that somebody … “ Since the beginning, people have been condemning those who take government’s vehicles to meetings … And it is true, the state property should not be mixed with the parties’ property … But other people use this and say, “let us take many government’s vehicles to our place, so people will see that we are important, that we are rich …” Now, that turns against them. Minister Gasana is in trouble because his administrator who is in charge of managing the state money refused to have those vehicles repaired. So, Gasana said, “I will fire you.” And the other says, “It is impossible.” Now, there is much disorder. There is also something else that we have noticed about Gasana. In a moment, we will talk about that as well as … Today, we will continue to condemn the Inkotanyi because they are keeping on not listening. One should think … I do not know in which language we should say it … They speak English and other languages but they do not care about what we are saying. Let us listen to this number and get some rest…

11.2 minutes

It is five minutes to 21:00 [or 9:00]. I told you that we will talk again about the Prime Minster Uwilingiyimana Agathe, about the speech she delivered condemning the communiqué of the Army. Still, people told me that she got afraid, that what she said was not what they expected her to say … They said, “we thought that she would talk loud as usually but we heard her thanking the Army …”

That is it. There, one should give her only two small marks because she did not condemn the Army as people expected her to. It is understandable. The Army knows how the government usually works … The way it is being used by Mulindi, by Kinihira. So, they took the initiative and said, “It is we who negotiate, we are stopping the negotiations.” So, people were expecting her to say, “The Army must … The Army is a band of Inkotanyi.” People thought that she would support the Inkotanyi but it is not what she did. I think that she has been careful. Before coming back to that speech…

12.6 minutes

Yesterday, I attended a press conference chaired by Faustin Twagiramungu with the parties M.D.R., P.S.D., PDC, P.L. P.L. of … People asked me, “is it the P.L.’s wing of Mugenzi or is the P.L.’s wing of Lando?” In any case, Mugenzi did not sign the communiqué, somebody named Mugiraneza Vincent signed for him. Mugiraneza Vincent is the President of the political commission and belongs to the Mugenzi wing but people have doubts. So, it is he who was seated besides Minister Gasana, Mr. Ngango, Gafaranga and Nzamurambaho for P.S.D. For PDC, it is understandable that it was Nayinzira who was there … You know that Nayinzira wants to get a post in the transitional government extended to the Inkotanyi. It is understandable that if he does not side with Twagiramungu Faustin, he would be in trouble … So, it is understandable that he cannot not attend a conference that he (Twagiramungu) organized. I want you to listen to what Twagiramungu Faustin calls “crime against humanity” in the press conference and how he intends to run his government. Listen to how he intends ruling by muzzling the journalists, putting others in jail, making others to pay fines… But I think that this is a mistake. We would be regressing.… Nobody could do it, what will he use to do that? Listen to what he calls “crime against humanity,” at what he rejoices … After, I will make some comments on that.

14.3 minutes

Speaker: Faustin TWAGIRAMUNGU, M.D.R. Chairman

What they call crimes against humanity … I really appreciated what Mr. Ngango said … So, let us hope that what Mr. Ngango said is true. [Applause] That the crimes against humanity are imprescriptible… So, if they are imprescriptible, I would tell those people that even our children will prosecute them … If they are still alive … We can no longer stand that people come and disorganize the country, saying that we are in democracy, doing whatever they want … Whether journalists or ministers or anybody else … As far as I am concerned, I keep on telling you: I am not saying that you should consider these agreements as the Bible but have yourself respected by the international community and remember that the President said, “that arm I am using to sign is the Rwandans’ arm” … So, if it is the Rwandans’ arm, it is not the arm of one person or of a particular group, it is the arm of all the Rwandans. I also want to recall that those agreements are the Constitution. What one should add is related to a question asked by a journalist, “How can you guarantee that the war will not be reopened?” In reality, if you use your common sense and follow up what is being done and said, you would think that there are people who want the war to be reopened. You notice that they are really determined, they brought war songs, those are the ones that are always played on radio stations, they brought insults. [Inaudible] The third part of article 7 stipulates, “Any harmful civil operation of disparaging and untruthful propaganda by the media.” That is it. They say, “The Inyenzi have come, they should go back.” That is against the agreement. So, I do not know whom you are talking to. That fact of always saying that the Hutus should rise up is also against the agreement. Those who are looking for the war should show it clearly, write and sign that they are looking for the war and cease playing games. So, they should get dressed … and go to the front. That war using the tongue should cease. They should get dressed and go to the front. If not, they should cease that. So, what guarantee are we giving? The guarantee we are giving is that … Without following what those people say … It is that if we follow the signed agreements, the article 72 of the protocol on the fusion of the R.P.F.’s Army and the Rwandan Armed Forces, we can see now that what that article required is being gradually achieved. That article states that any government cannot be established in Kigali and works in Kigali without security, and that requires the presence of the neutral U.N. forces before the government is established. So that article 7 which stipulates that the agreements should be implemented within 37 days after the signature … So, I think that as you have been hearing it on radio, as we wished, those soldiers are keeping on coming. Now, I think that some 300 soldiers have already arrived … So we can give the guarantee …

18.2 minutes

Speaker: [Kantano HABIMANA] ?

You are still tuned in to the independent radio, broadcasting from Kigali. It is 21:04 [or 9:04] in our studio. You were listening to Faustin Twagiramungu, in a press conference he held yesterday in Meridien surrounded by people from the parties M.D.R., PDC, … He was rather the one representing M.D.R. and was surrounded by the representatives of P.S.D., PDC and P.L. On behalf of Mugenzi, there was Mugiraneza Vincent. So, in brief; Twagiramungu is saying, “Since we have signed the agreements and since my name is written down in the agreements, I will rule over you by the agreements, everybody will keep quiet …” No way … And concerning the Army’s songs, that they are back … Twagiramungu is surely afraid of history. History is history. Not taking it in account or forgetting it is wrong. Will the Inkotanyi come and then, we will immediately forget? Because of the Arusha agreements, we will forget the million of the refugees of Nyacyonga, we will forget the three years of war, we will forget everything that happened … Does that mean that because of the fusion the Army will forget that they fought against those Inkotanyi ? Will they forget Mimuli, Nyakayaga? Because of … In any case, maybe Twagiramungu can prevent Radio Rwanda from telling the Rwandans about history. Still, he cannot prevent an independent radio from telling the Rwandans about history. Because there is no way you cannot tell people about history. Twagiramungu can also hide his personal history, that is his business … But nobody can hide the history of the country. Twagiramungu can hide that he has been the manager of STIR for nine years with a salary of 300,000 RWF per month. That is his business. He can hide that he is “the” Rukokoma Twagiramungu who spent days and nights abusing the President of the Republic. Twagiramungu can say that he is not the one who said that they should tear Interahamwe into pieces … And when the C.D.R. was about to tear him into pieces, he got afraid and said that a child cannot tear a parent into pieces. He is talking of crimes against humanity … Is anything more crime against humanity than inciting the youth to tear one another into pieces? It is true, history never forgets. One day, he also will have to answer for that. In any case, Twagiramungu can never prevent us from thanking the Rwandan Armed Forces who prevented the Inkotanyi from tearing us into pieces … We cannot not thank the Rwandan Armed Forces who made the Inkotanyi to accept the agreements … They accepted them when they realized that they had used all the possible stratagems up … Buffer zone stratagems, etc. When they realized that they had no option they agreed to negotiate but what they really wanted was to capture us as Nayinzira said and do whatever they wanted with us. It is understandable that the Rwandan Armed Forces defended us, they defended the Rwandans, they defended the sovereignty of the country, which made the Inkotanyi to accept those agreements with which Twagiramungu intends to tyrannize us. That is the reason why.

Actually, he can tell Radio Rwanda to say nothing about the history of the country … He can also prevent Radio Rwanda from praising the Army … That is his business. But on R.T.L.M., we know the usefulness of the Army, we know what they did for Rwanda, we know what they did for the sovereignty of Rwanda. We know that even these agreements … For the Inkotanyi to accept them, it is that the Inzirabwoba stood up to them and made them accept the agreements. So, Twagiramungu cannot prevent an independent radio like this one, a radio of many Rwandans, he cannot prevent it from praising the Army … He cannot do that, that would be impossible … So, saying that we play Army’s songs, that we do this and that … That is history … Nobody can cancel it. Long life to the Rwandan Armed Forces!

22.9 minutes

…That in Burundi, they are preparing another coup d’état … I am still analyzing it, in a moment, I will inform you about that. Meanwhile, let us go on with the yesterday evening press conference of the parties M.D.R., P.S.D. and P.L. They were expressing their opinion on the communiqué released by the Army … Minister Gasana participated in that press conference … Minister Gasana … Some people should believe that R.T.L.M. is a biased radio because it talks much about the ministers of the opposition. That is not true. We just want this country to be ruled by people who tell the truth, of course politicians … In politics, they sometimes tell lies. However, even if you lie, you have to know that people are listening to you and analyzing what you are saying. Minister Gasana says things, says them with force and thinks that people have understood him or agreed with what he said … That is a mistake. You can say something with force but there are people who know that you are lying … So, lying to other people who are far away or trying to make them believe what they do not believe … That is not right. In that press conference, a journalist put a question to Minister Gasana. You will hear what he asked him.… You will also hear his reply … After that, I will make some comments … First, let Minister Gasana answer that journalist of the newspaper Interahamwe. His name is Hahozayezu Thacien.

24.8 minutes

Speaker: Anastase GASANA, Foreign Minister of Rwanda

A journalist of the newspaper Interahamwe says, “You, the parties … those events took place on the 18th and today, we are on the 23rd. Are you unhappy because of people who died or because of the communiqué released by the minister of defense?” It is true. The events took place during the night of the 17th to the 18th. That means that it took the parties four days before they announce something to the Rwandans. The reasons are the following: first, the parties did not want to excite people … As one of you said that the parties excited people … So, the leaders of the parties did not want to excite people because the leaders of parties and the parties represent many citizens, that is why they have to be as careful as possible with their declarations. They have to be careful with what they say. That is why that carefulness requires sufficient analysis before making declarations that can put the whole country at fire because of the members who are represented by the leaders of the parties. So, that was to avoid exciting people. Secondly, the parties do not have enough means to go immediately to see what happened at a particular place. There are no means. There are no vehicles, no equipment, … The equipment which should allow the parties to go to the scene of the events and see by themselves is lacking. This is another difficulty. Thirdly, the zone in which those criminal acts took is under the Kinihira agreements. Those agreements which stipule that it is a demilitarized zone. No soldier, whether of the Rwandan Army or the R.P.F.’s Army should be present in that zone. Only the U.N. soldiers can occupy that zone. So, the parties had to wait for the supervisor of that zone, namely U.N., Unamir, to make a declaration. Because they are the ones who have the right to be present there. Then, the parties, on a political level, because they represent many people and because they want to avoid exciting people, they waited for the U.N. forces’ declaration before declaring something to their respective members. Fourthly, the parties were waiting for the reports of investigation carried out by the administration that should have been released quickly … There is an administration in that region. There is a Subprefecture administration. There are Bourgmesters, conseillers, IPJs of the Subprefecture. There are authorities in that demilitarized zone. Then the parties said, “The Subprefecture administration of that zone should release something on which the parties should base on to make any declaration to the Rwandans about the acts committed in that zone.” Fourthly, the parties of M.D.R., P.S.D., PDC and P.L. were actually left in an impasse of not knowing the real situation because of the bewildering behavior of the party M.R.N.D. with respect to the way it is working in that area. You would ask me for which reason … The first reason, you know that M.R.N.D. refused that the Prefects of Byumba and Ruhengeri should govern that zone. Because they were attached to Bizimana who was the Prefer of Byumba and to Baliyanga who was the Prefect of Ruhengeri. The other parties told them, “let us nominate new Prefects, who will govern the whole zone.” Because M.R.N.D. was attached to those persons as if they were indispensable, they agreed that those persons should never go in that region, that Prefer Bizimana should never go in Kinihira Subprefecture, that Prefect Baliyanga should never go in Kirambo Subprefecture but that they should remain in their posts. That also left the parties in an impasse because they should not keep up with what was happening in that zone. Because of that mistake committed by M.R.N.D. which is turning against us now. If they have accepted the nomination of new Prefers who would be ruling over that whole region, we would not face the problems we are facing now Those Prefects should have built up a good relationship with R.P.F. Inkotanyi and should have organized mutual visits … Like for all the missions to Kinihira or to Mulindi, they should have also participated in those missions. Like on the occasion of Prime Minister’s missions, the Prefer of Byumba should have also gone … For instance, the Prime Minister Agathe Uwilingiyimana met with the officials of R.P.F. Inkotanyi and visited the displaced persons. If there had been a Prefect in Byumba, we should have gone there together. The same thing in Ruhengeri. If there had been a Prefect in Ruhengeri, we should have gone there together. We should have always gone with him on the occasion of those negotiations that allow people to meet and prevent any possible frictions that can bring misfortunes among the population. Something else is that the parties did not want people to interfere in the U.N. job. That area is under Unamir’s supervision. So, it is for Unamir to investigate quickly on what is happening in that area and release a report … Along with a report which those area’s administrative authorities nominated by the Rwandan government should release. Then, one should see the results of both those investigations. All those investigations’ reports can be quickly released. For instance, General Dallaire declared that Thursday, he will be in a position to declare to the Rwandans what happened in that region. On Thursday. The third fact that put people in an impasse is the report of the Prefer of Ruhengeri. Normally, the Prefer of Ruhengeri lives in Kigali. That is where he lives … But what put people in an impasse is that on the 18th in the morning, he sent to the Prime Minister…

Speaker: [Kantano HABIMANA] ?

You are still tuned in to R.T.L.M. Radio, broadcasting from …

End of Tape.